Oor, October 5, 1977: Difference between revisions

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"Yes, right now I have about an album and a half of new songs that I wrote after recording ''My Aim is True''. I also have about sixty numbers that I wrote before that. If my doctor tells me I have terminal cancer; I can still make 4 more LP's really quickly just to make a bunch of money before I'd die."
"Yes, right now I have about an album and a half of new songs that I wrote after recording ''My Aim is True''. I also have about sixty numbers that I wrote before that. If my doctor tells me I have terminal cancer; I can still make 4 more LP's really quickly just to make a bunch of money before I'd die."
''How long have you been writing songs?
"Since I was sixteen, but how long I've been any good at it I don't know. You only find that out when you let someone else hear it. You can easily get an inflated picture of yourself or have a misplaced lack of self esteem; if you never have someone else listen to it. I know so many people who don't think that they can write anything; but that are actually really good and only need someone to give them a little self confidence."
''The interview with Nick Kent in NME didn't give the impression that you ever had a problem with lack of self confidence.
"For the best part of a year I was utterly convinced that I was right and everyone else was wrong. I thought to myself, I won't get angry, I have all these songs, no one pays me any attention, but every time I heard the terrible stuff on the radio, I got the feeling that I couldn't be wrong. And that the record labels were wrong to keep rejecting me."
''You pulled quite a stunt with that outdoor concert in front of the London Hilton (Costello was eventually arrested).
"We were going to perform that night at Dingwall's, Camden and went that afternoon with flyers and such to advertise in front of the Hilton. I had my guitar and a battery-amplifier with me, and I then played some numbers off my album. There had just been a huge CBS convention, the president of CBS was there too. It was a perfect opportunity to let them know that we were there too. These people would otherwise never hear that sort of thing. In Park Lane no one talks about what's going on at Dingwall's."
''Whose playing with you now? Is it the same line up as on the LP?
"No, it's a different band on the album. I can't say which one, because they have a contract with another record company. Only, it's not The Rumour; as some may think."
''And The Attractions, the band that you have now, includes Pete Thomas, Bruce Thomas (no relation), and someone on keyboards, Steven Young, or something?
"Yes, it's a bit confusing; Young keeps changing his name. He has five names, Steve Mason, Steve Nason, Steve Winson... I don't know"
"That's what the guitarist from the band in question does. On the B-side of 'Watching the Detectives' you can hear me playing guitar; on the live version of 'Blame it On Cain'. I only play rhythm guitar on the LP."
''Do you have a different sound with the Attractions than you did on My Aim Is True?
"Yes, on the album we used a clarinet, an acoustic piano and sometimes two guitars at once. It has a fuller sound because it has been recorded in a studio. Now, with the Attractions, the line-up consists just of drums, bass and a Vox Continental organ plus myself on guitar. And the latter not even all the time, sometimes I just sing. The rhythm section is very tight and I want to keep it thin, slim. The emphasis is on my vocals with the organ as melodic factor on the background."
''That band that you can’t mention because of contractual reasons, do they also play on other Stiff recordings?
"They play on 'Little By Little' by Magic Michael on the ''Bunch Of Stiffs'' album, that is the only song that I know of. What I however do want to tell you is that Steve Goulding and Andrew Bodnar of the Rumour play on 'Detectives'. That was as a matter of fact recorded in between the ''My Aim Is True'' sessions and the coming together of the Attractions. Steve Young (Mason etc.) did do some keyboard overdubs on top of it. So it's a mixture of Rumour and Attractions. Steve Goulding and Andrew also helped me when auditioning for the Attractions. By the way, I don't even know the person playing keyboards on 'Less Than Zero'. At first there was no keyboard in it, but Nick thought it would sound better with keyboards. That was also the reason for using an organ with the Attractions, because it really did sound right. That's why a lot of songs sound different now than they do on the record. This way it remains interesting for the ones that bought the LP. Some songs really sound like they’re totally new. Most people are being positive, at least we haven’t received any complaints yet, over e.g. missing the beautiful guitar in 'Alison'.
''Do you know anything about the falling out between Nick Lowe and Dave Edmunds?
"I know exactly. That ''NME''-piece dramatises it all a bit too much. There was some tension between them, but on the coming Stiff-tour in England the Nick Lowe/Larry Wallis band is also playing. And that band will probably consist of Lowe on bass, Larry Wallis and Pete Thomas on guitar and Terry Williams and Dave Edmunds on drums. So those two can't have been that fallen out. It's more or less a joke: the Attractions-drummer on guitar and the legendary guitar player Dave Edmunds on drums. How things are with Rockpile, I don't know exactly."
''You will be able to understand that it's not easy for a Dutchman to completely understand your lyrics.
"When you want to tell something in a song sometimes you have to chose for a form that is not understandable for everyone. Something that is understandable for everyone can be very boring, because in trying to make it clear for everyone, the result can be very obvious."





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Elvis Costello interview


Archie Barneveld and Martijn Stoffer

After years of begging at all big record companies to get a chance to make his own album with his own songs, Elvis Costello finally did it. Not Decca, EMI or ABC, but Stiff Records, Jake Riviera's small label, dared to give this young eccentric (he says he's only 22) a chance. In the interview we did with Elvis it shines through that because of these frustrating experiences he doesn't speak highly of the "Safety-first'-policy the big record companies follow.

According to Elvis, in order to get a record company to consider releasing your LP, you've either got to be an established star or come in with a finished product as a new artist. They appear from his experience to be too miserable and too stupid to recognize, from a couple of raw guitar and vocal recordings, how good the finished product could be. Actually, it's Elvis's turn to laugh. After the success of My Aim Is True, Elvis's debut LP, produced by Stiff's leading producer Nick Lowe, he was offered to sign a lucrative recording contract with Anchor Records (ABC). However, just one year before, they sent him away like a naughty boy, when he let them hear a few of his tapes; something he's very sensitive about. He gives them one chance, and one chance only, then, as far as he's concerned they can *stick it!!* [or some such insult], as attested by Richard Williams, columnist at Melody Maker, who, in his position as ASR-man at Island Records turned Elvis down. Now, though, Elvis has every reason to be happy, his debut LP has been unanimously praised by the music critics and, on top of that, has sold quite well. Week in and week out, you can see his face on the cover of all the English music magazines and it's gotten to the point that the journalists apologize for the monotony of their articles, before, again, singing Elvis's praises.


Did you enjoy playing for so many people in Bilzen?

"Yes, it wasn't actually the ideal environment to play in, there was a lot of violence between the public on the platform and the bouncers, but I don't mind playing for a large group of people. Only at night in the open air, then you don't see how the public's reacting anymore."

We've read recently about your last concert for a large audience during the Crystal Palace Garden Party.

"That was a little ridiculous, because we played with a huge lake in front of us to a group of aging hippies. We only did it because we were paid very well and we'd just bought all our equipment. We played well but a bit further away you could hardly hear it. The press also reacted without much enthusiasm; but that's the way it is, first they're praising us for a few weeks, then they're running us down for a few weeks, and then they like us again. I really couldn't care less."

You only played four numbers from your LP.

"Yes I'm not really interested in playing exactly what people expect me to, I always want to have a few new songs up my sleeve."

We've already been made curious about the new songs like "Watching The Detectives" (a harrowing story about a young couple that's watching Starsky and Hutch, or something, when the girl is paying so much attention to her television hero that she completely forgets her boyfriend; the climax of the story being that the boyfriend kills her for this.)

"That's being released as a single on October 7th. The B-side will be live versions of 'Blame It On Cain' and 'Mystery Dance'. It's recorded with our new band, The Attractions."

In the music press, most of the attention goes to your lyrics.

"Yes, that makes perfect sense."

That's why we want to ask you something about music. It's maybe a difficult question, but we're interested in which music has had an influence on you.

"Hmm, there are so many artists that I'm influenced by, but there's not one that's more important than the rest. My favourite singers change weekly, depending on what I'm listening to."

You don't have any specific heroes?

"No, no. Every journalist has got someone in their head who I remind them of. When they then ask me about it, I always say that I wasn't influenced by that artist more or less than someone like Dusty Springfield, who I seriously appreciate but don't particularly resemble."

A lot of people compare you to Graham Parker or Van Morrison, but we don't think you're like anyone else.

"Some hear the similarities with Parker, but I don't notice it at all. The same goes for Van Morrison and Bruce Springsteen. Those three are more like each other than I am like any one of them. My voice is much higher and lighter than their voices. On the record anyway, my voice does sound different live, but when I listen to the record, I think it's just nonsense."

One of the few direct traces of the past that we've discovered are the drumbeats on 'No Dancing'. They come from 'Be My Baby' from the Ronettes.

"Well, that's more or less an average drum pattern. You could just as easily say it's from 'Not A Second Time' from the Beatles. It's just the same beat, but it's not like we thought, come on let's use the drums from 'Be My Baby'. It happens more or less on it's own, without realising it."

There are musicians that do it intentionally.

"Yes, and there's nothing wrong with that. There are so many different drum fills you can use and it becomes dead boring if you always use the same one. If you sound like the Ramones or Bo Diddley, then it gets boring. You listen to people and you keep some of it unconsciously. That doesn't mean that you directly copy certain things."

What were you doing actually, before your breakthrough this year?

"I've decided not to talk about that. Not that I want to be so mysterious but only because I sound a little bitter when I talk about all those futile attempts to get a recording contract. I don't want to come across as bitter, but it's bound to happen when I start criticising those record companies. Because of that, it just becomes boring. I don't really like to talk about my past. I think that interviews where someone talks about what they did when they were 14 etc. are also a bit boring."

Is Elvis Costello your real name?

"Yes, it is actually an uncommon name in England, but it's true."

Were your parents fans of the other Elvis, or something?

"No, not at all."

It's also a name that a sly manager could think up.

"Yes, that's also a problem for me. But if John Lennon were to die tomorrow, they wouldn't be making a fuss about John Denver being named John; it's just the same as me and Elvis Presley."

An 'In Memorium' about Presley here in Holland ended with 'Elvis Presley is dead, but we already have a new Elvis.'

"Ah, that's just journalism; being so clever that you find another glib closing for your article; it doesn't matter to me. People see soon enough that I'm not just a misplaced joke; I'm not trying to fool anybody. It's just a name, you know."

To what degree has Nick Lowe's production, and indeed the whole atmosphere at Stiff, influenced your concept or sound? Would My Aim is True have sounded different with another producer and record company?

"Yes, because the sound, the tune of the whole record is for the most part Nick's job. That's why he's the producer. At a big record company, they could have made me sound very different, maybe they would have wanted me to be the new Bob Dylan, the new Bruce Springsteen, or the new Graham Parker. The big companies have a tendency to do that. They had quite possibly even less imagination than all these journalists, who also wanted to make me into the next 'new somebody'. Instead of just accepting me as Elvis Costello and making the best of it."

Nick Lowe sort of makes it a habit to play and sing on the albums he produces.

"Nick only plays bass on 'Mystery Dance' and sings some harmonies on 'Red Shoes' and 'No Dancing'."

Did you have an absolute idea about the arrangements in advance?

"No, before we decided to make a record, I just sat home writing a countless number of songs. The songs outnumbered any ideas I had about how the arrangements would actually sound on record. Only four, of the approximately 15 songs I sent to Stiff last year, ended up on the LP. The other 11 weren't even attempted, I'd already written so many other new songs in the meantime."

Do you really have so many extra songs lying around?

"Yes, right now I have about an album and a half of new songs that I wrote after recording My Aim is True. I also have about sixty numbers that I wrote before that. If my doctor tells me I have terminal cancer; I can still make 4 more LP's really quickly just to make a bunch of money before I'd die."

How long have you been writing songs?

"Since I was sixteen, but how long I've been any good at it I don't know. You only find that out when you let someone else hear it. You can easily get an inflated picture of yourself or have a misplaced lack of self esteem; if you never have someone else listen to it. I know so many people who don't think that they can write anything; but that are actually really good and only need someone to give them a little self confidence."

The interview with Nick Kent in NME didn't give the impression that you ever had a problem with lack of self confidence.

"For the best part of a year I was utterly convinced that I was right and everyone else was wrong. I thought to myself, I won't get angry, I have all these songs, no one pays me any attention, but every time I heard the terrible stuff on the radio, I got the feeling that I couldn't be wrong. And that the record labels were wrong to keep rejecting me."

You pulled quite a stunt with that outdoor concert in front of the London Hilton (Costello was eventually arrested).

"We were going to perform that night at Dingwall's, Camden and went that afternoon with flyers and such to advertise in front of the Hilton. I had my guitar and a battery-amplifier with me, and I then played some numbers off my album. There had just been a huge CBS convention, the president of CBS was there too. It was a perfect opportunity to let them know that we were there too. These people would otherwise never hear that sort of thing. In Park Lane no one talks about what's going on at Dingwall's."

Whose playing with you now? Is it the same line up as on the LP?

"No, it's a different band on the album. I can't say which one, because they have a contract with another record company. Only, it's not The Rumour; as some may think."

And The Attractions, the band that you have now, includes Pete Thomas, Bruce Thomas (no relation), and someone on keyboards, Steven Young, or something?

"Yes, it's a bit confusing; Young keeps changing his name. He has five names, Steve Mason, Steve Nason, Steve Winson... I don't know"

"That's what the guitarist from the band in question does. On the B-side of 'Watching the Detectives' you can hear me playing guitar; on the live version of 'Blame it On Cain'. I only play rhythm guitar on the LP."

Do you have a different sound with the Attractions than you did on My Aim Is True?

"Yes, on the album we used a clarinet, an acoustic piano and sometimes two guitars at once. It has a fuller sound because it has been recorded in a studio. Now, with the Attractions, the line-up consists just of drums, bass and a Vox Continental organ plus myself on guitar. And the latter not even all the time, sometimes I just sing. The rhythm section is very tight and I want to keep it thin, slim. The emphasis is on my vocals with the organ as melodic factor on the background."

That band that you can’t mention because of contractual reasons, do they also play on other Stiff recordings?

"They play on 'Little By Little' by Magic Michael on the Bunch Of Stiffs album, that is the only song that I know of. What I however do want to tell you is that Steve Goulding and Andrew Bodnar of the Rumour play on 'Detectives'. That was as a matter of fact recorded in between the My Aim Is True sessions and the coming together of the Attractions. Steve Young (Mason etc.) did do some keyboard overdubs on top of it. So it's a mixture of Rumour and Attractions. Steve Goulding and Andrew also helped me when auditioning for the Attractions. By the way, I don't even know the person playing keyboards on 'Less Than Zero'. At first there was no keyboard in it, but Nick thought it would sound better with keyboards. That was also the reason for using an organ with the Attractions, because it really did sound right. That's why a lot of songs sound different now than they do on the record. This way it remains interesting for the ones that bought the LP. Some songs really sound like they’re totally new. Most people are being positive, at least we haven’t received any complaints yet, over e.g. missing the beautiful guitar in 'Alison'.


Do you know anything about the falling out between Nick Lowe and Dave Edmunds?

"I know exactly. That NME-piece dramatises it all a bit too much. There was some tension between them, but on the coming Stiff-tour in England the Nick Lowe/Larry Wallis band is also playing. And that band will probably consist of Lowe on bass, Larry Wallis and Pete Thomas on guitar and Terry Williams and Dave Edmunds on drums. So those two can't have been that fallen out. It's more or less a joke: the Attractions-drummer on guitar and the legendary guitar player Dave Edmunds on drums. How things are with Rockpile, I don't know exactly."

You will be able to understand that it's not easy for a Dutchman to completely understand your lyrics.

"When you want to tell something in a song sometimes you have to chose for a form that is not understandable for everyone. Something that is understandable for everyone can be very boring, because in trying to make it clear for everyone, the result can be very obvious."





Remainder of text to come...



-

OOR, October 5, 1977


Archie Barneveld and Martijn Stoffer interview Elvis Costello.
English translation thanks to Jessica De Visscher and Wouter Pronk.

Images

1977-10-05 OOR cover.jpg
Cover.

File:1977-10-05 OOR photo 01.jpg


Elvis Costello


Archie Barneveld and Martijn Stoffer

What is it, then, that makes him so great and so original? In England, most of the interest and praise are directed towards the lyrics; that in a very personal way reflect Elvis's point of view on politics ("Less than Zero") and sexuality ("Mystery Dance" and "I'm Not Angry"). It's mainly been the slightly masochistic character of his lyrics that have caused the English press to speculate about the possible autobiographical undertones. Costello doesn't deny these autobiographical tendencies in his lyrics, but, as we've experienced, he's completely unwilling to discuss anything he considers too personal. What he does want to discuss, however — and according to our impression, rather exclusively — are his own lyrics; since, in his own words, writing lyrics is the one thing he does well. In that regard, you also shouldn't expect any false modesty from him either. His musical competence, that on a number like "Alison" becomes so evident, is something that he'd actually rather play down.

Since the English pop press is no stranger to a certain style of journalism — la 'Henk van der Meyden's Privé' — our overseas neighbours have, in the past few weeks, due to lack of factual relevant information, built a myth that Elvis is a self-assertive and vengeful little man; that at the first sign of a question he doesn't like during an interview, he writes the name of the interviewer in a little black book, so that he may, when the opportunity arises, take revenge, in an unspeakable manner, on the journalist that would torture him so. Although this image offers a lot in the way of juicy reading material; the readers looking for sensationalism in this article will be a bit disappointed. From the moment Elvis entered the Jordaan district café, where we agreed to meet, he appeared to be quite the picture of kindness. He is dressed in a dark blue three piece suit with a black tie and this early 60's clothing is exalted by black thick rimmed glasses, that you can't find in Amsterdam at the opticians shop anymore.

Self-assertive, he is; especially of the fact that he can write fantastic songs; an insight that's kept him on his feet through the years of failure. Instead of taking pleasure in his sudden success, he's taken on an attitude of healthy skepticism considering all the extravagant praises now directed at him. Because of this, he was able to calmly meet the challenge of his first English performance for a large audience in Crystal Palace (before that, with the exception of the Bilzen-festival in Belgium, he'd only performed with much success in smaller clubs).


File:1977-10-05 OOR photo 02.jpg


File:1977-10-05 OOR photo 03.jpg


File:1977-10-05 OOR photo 04.jpg
Photos.

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