Oor, October 5, 1977: Difference between revisions
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''The song about The National Front, "Less Than Zero," we only then understood when we read in the music press what it was about. | ''The song about The National Front, "Less Than Zero," we only then understood when we read in the music press what it was about. | ||
"Yes, and that's the way I want it. Some song are very obvious, like e.g. | "Yes, and that's the way I want it. Some song are very obvious, like e.g. 'Alison', that anyone can understand, if you understand English. But it's a different case with the two songs about the National Front, 'Night Rally' and 'Less Than Zero', that actually is more about Oswald Mosley, a fascist from the thirties who was on television some time ago. That Mosley made me very angry, so I wrote a song about him. I didn't want to write a real slogan-song, but something 'kind of tricky', That's why it's also very difficult for people in England to get the clue of the song, because the song does not have a clue; the clue as a matter of fact is that everything means 'Less Than Zero' and that it doesn't measure anything. 'Night Rally' is something different altogether. It is about The National Front, about what kind of people they are. I had the feeling that it was about time a song was being written about them, so that one gets some more insight into what they really are, what they want. I think that in England people were led astray as far as the N.F. was concerned, and I wanted to set that straight. I can't really take people outside of England into account when I'm writing songs. But it seems kind of useful if a song like this is being noticed in e.g. France or Holland and the people start sifting the lyrics. This way my song does spread some knowledge about these situations. You know, I really don't want to become such a big political personality who has big opinions and who says to others: everyone rally behind me. Because I don't know more about it than everybody else. I can only tell what makes me very very angry personally. I'm not saying I'm right, just that I snap about certain things, and then I write a song about it. And if you say I'm right, I hope that you first verify it. I am who I am, I don't possess a profound knowledge about everything at all, I look at it all with a personal view. Never follow someone off-hand, first try to find the real hang of things yourself, because just saying 'you are right' is absolutely wrong.'' | ||
''In the NME interview you said that you're the first to make songs about the total loser. | ''In the NME interview you said that you're the first to make songs about the total loser. | ||
"You should take some things in that interview with a grain of salt, we were very drunk at the end. I can't remember exactly using those words, but the idea behind it is this: there are songs where the singer is being adored, like e.g. Bad Company with lyrics like | "You should take some things in that interview with a grain of salt, we were very drunk at the end. I can't remember exactly using those words, but the idea behind it is this: there are songs where the singer is being adored, like e.g. Bad Company with lyrics like 'Baby I'm Such A Man' etc. and there are songs that are tricky and funny, that deal with people that end up with the worse end of the stick. Someone like John Prine can write amusing songs about someone who is not doing very well. But because they laugh a bit at themselves you don't get the impression that they are not feeling that bad, or that they're that deeply hurt. The fact that they can still laugh about it, makes them win in some way or another, even if they lost everything. I do think that aspect got a little bit too much attention. Because 'Sneaky Feelings' isn't about something pleasant at all. So instead of writing about 'the great love I have for you, darling' or 'the great lust I have for you', it still remains 'sneaky feelings'. Do you understand? It's not normal, it's neither respectable romantic nor respectable horny, it's more kind of weak. And the journalists have jumped on that writing about weakness. I think too much is made out of it and you'll find that my next album on the one hand will sound harder and harsher, while on the other hand it will be less about me. It will sound somewhat more arrogant too, because I want to get people off the notion that I'm a kind of super loser. I don't feel like wearing that tag for the rest of my life. When someone pushes you in some corner, you can do best by jumping out of it at once. If it looks like I'm heading for the other side a bit too extreme, that's the reason. First let people think about you in this way, then another way, first stand on your head, then take off all your clothes, and right after that put on 5 trousers on top of each other, that's the way I look at things, you know, confuse people again and again, doing the unsuspected is what I enjoy." | ||
''Journalists always want to push you in a corner. A review of your record had next to it, capitalised | ''Journalists always want to push you in a corner. A review of your record had next to it, capitalised 'Masochism'. | ||
"Well, they thought it was a good point of view, from which they could judge the record. I can imagine that, as a journalist you have to write a good review, and you have to find a good point of view for that. In a sense it's the same as when you write a song. I could have made a very heavy protest song about that Oswald, but I'm not too fond of that. And the journalist takes out one aspect of my music and ignores the others. I can appreciate that but it will of course never mean that piece is the only possible truth. People can decide for themselves anyway when they buy the album, because I don't set rules for how people should listen to my music. Like: I just made this record, you have to understand it in this and this manner, you have to like it in that way. You just like it or not, whatever you want. I made it at this moment, the record is out and if people think they get what they wanted, then the reason behind their satisfaction is of no interest to me. If they like the record because of the colour of the sleeve, then that's their business. And if they want to analyse every single line, then that too is their business. They can do whatever they like." | "Well, they thought it was a good point of view, from which they could judge the record. I can imagine that, as a journalist you have to write a good review, and you have to find a good point of view for that. In a sense it's the same as when you write a song. I could have made a very heavy protest song about that Oswald, but I'm not too fond of that. And the journalist takes out one aspect of my music and ignores the others. I can appreciate that but it will of course never mean that piece is the only possible truth. People can decide for themselves anyway when they buy the album, because I don't set rules for how people should listen to my music. Like: I just made this record, you have to understand it in this and this manner, you have to like it in that way. You just like it or not, whatever you want. I made it at this moment, the record is out and if people think they get what they wanted, then the reason behind their satisfaction is of no interest to me. If they like the record because of the colour of the sleeve, then that's their business. And if they want to analyse every single line, then that too is their business. They can do whatever they like." | ||
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''In those old C&W songs you also find many songs about complete losers. | ''In those old C&W songs you also find many songs about complete losers. | ||
"Yes, I think so too. Blues on the other hand always has an arrogant feel to it, something virile. C&W always is … yes, take e.g. that George Jones song | "Yes, I think so too. Blues on the other hand always has an arrogant feel to it, something virile. C&W always is … yes, take e.g. that George Jones song 'It's Been A Good Year For The Roses'. The opening couplet is like this: 'I can barely stand to see the lipstick-traces on the cigarette butts there in the ashtray and the ring on the half-filled cup of coffee that you poured as you left to pack, but at least you thought you wanted it and that's so much more than I could say for me'. So he compares himself to cigarette butts in the ashtray and a half-filled coffee cup. You can't fall any lower, can you? If that's not an example of how desperate you can get in C&W-songs." | ||
''Outside C&W-music there's another good example of absolute despair, to be more precise, several songs on Twelve Songs by Randy Newman. | ''Outside C&W-music there's another good example of absolute despair, to be more precise, several songs on Twelve Songs by Randy Newman. | ||
"Yes, I am a big Randy Newman fan, he is one of my big …, no, I wouldn't want to say that he is an important influence to be discovered in my work musically. But I listen to him a lot and I very much admire him. He typically is someone whose music I like. My favourite song has to be | "Yes, I am a big Randy Newman fan, he is one of my big …, no, I wouldn't want to say that he is an important influence to be discovered in my work musically. But I listen to him a lot and I very much admire him. He typically is someone whose music I like. My favourite song has to be 'If You Need Oil', about a man who works at a gas station, with the beautiful line 'How can you be asleep while you know I'm awake'. Yes, I'll admit that I'm not the first to write these kind of songs; nothing is completely new of course." | ||
''Do you feel the English press did you justice by the way they introduced Elvis Costello to the public? | ''Do you feel the English press did you justice by the way they introduced Elvis Costello to the public? | ||
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''No, it's not like that, they have heard your songs, because there are some import stores here. Your record was only officially released here last week. | ''No, it's not like that, they have heard your songs, because there are some import stores here. Your record was only officially released here last week. | ||
"That is nice, but rather relative. A lot of people are just snobs that like to brag to others, like | "That is nice, but rather relative. A lot of people are just snobs that like to brag to others, like 'Have you heard that guy Elvis Costello?' – 'No, never heard of him.' – 'I do, and I have known him for years now.' And so on. That's just the way people are. I did it too, and everyone has done it, it just is fun to belong to an elite group." | ||
''But are you satisfied after fighting against the grain for all these years? | ''But are you satisfied after fighting against the grain for all these years? | ||
"That's not the way I look at it. I never had the ambition, I only wanted to make a record. I did have the idea that I could prove myself, if the record would not be destroyed by some stupid producer of some stupid record company. But it's not like I can now sit down satisfied, having the idea that I made it, because that is the best way to ruin it all. I immediately think | "That's not the way I look at it. I never had the ambition, I only wanted to make a record. I did have the idea that I could prove myself, if the record would not be destroyed by some stupid producer of some stupid record company. But it's not like I can now sit down satisfied, having the idea that I made it, because that is the best way to ruin it all. I immediately think 'how will the next record have to be, will it be this or that way', I want it to be different in any case, different but just as terse." | ||
''Do you have the idea that you're part of a new musical wave or do you feel you're on your own? | ''Do you have the idea that you're part of a new musical wave or do you feel you're on your own? | ||
"It's not that I feel like I'm on a lonely crusade, but I also don't feel like I'm doing the same thing as a lot of others. | "It's not that I feel like I'm on a lonely crusade, but I also don't feel like I'm doing the same thing as a lot of others. 'I'm not in any wave'. I do what I can to alienate me from it. Not because I don't like what people call 'New Wave' but just because I don't feel like wearing a 'New Wave'-jacket. And then to behave like they feel you should behave. I'd rather decide my own path, I want to be able to change when I want to, not when they want me to." | ||
''Who is going to be the first singer to cover one of your songs? | ''Who is going to be the first singer to cover one of your songs? | ||
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''Do you intend to record just your own songs? | ''Do you intend to record just your own songs? | ||
"I don't know, but at the end of our first tour we did two songs by others just for fun. | "I don't know, but at the end of our first tour we did two songs by others just for fun. 'The Price Of Love' by The Everly Brothers, and Dusty Springfield's 'I Just Don't Know What To Do With Myself'. But I don't think I'll record songs by other people on record for the time being. | ||
Most of the time it's a sign that you don't have enough of your own material." | Most of the time it's a sign that you don't have enough of your own material." | ||
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"I think it is a slightly misplaced idea that he has formed about himself lately. He needs more confidence, then he'll manage. If you can play guitar like that, you can also write a song. | "I think it is a slightly misplaced idea that he has formed about himself lately. He needs more confidence, then he'll manage. If you can play guitar like that, you can also write a song. | ||
A song is half music and half lyrics, at least. Often the words are more important than the music, especially when you want to tell a story. The melody is very simple and not that important then. Others, on the other hand, can break someone's heart by just the melody, someone like Brian Wilson. I can't do that, I need simple melodies that go well with the words. Thus I'm not thinking about myself as a real composer. First I get the words, then I can always make a melody to go with it. I'm not composing in the classical meaning of the word, you know sit at the piano and then finding a melody as you're trying. Many artists think e.g. | A song is half music and half lyrics, at least. Often the words are more important than the music, especially when you want to tell a story. The melody is very simple and not that important then. Others, on the other hand, can break someone's heart by just the melody, someone like Brian Wilson. I can't do that, I need simple melodies that go well with the words. Thus I'm not thinking about myself as a real composer. First I get the words, then I can always make a melody to go with it. I'm not composing in the classical meaning of the word, you know sit at the piano and then finding a melody as you're trying. Many artists think e.g. 'what can I sing to this riff', there are an awful lot of people who make their records that way. And even if it's sometimes done quite well, most of the time you notice that they didn't put their whole heart into it. | ||
The words are the content for me, the most important part. If I wanted to write really good music, then I would make instrumentals. Like e.g. Charlie Mingus, who can put anything he feels and wants to say in his music. I can't do that. One person writes poems, another paints, and I happen to be able to write lyrics." | The words are the content for me, the most important part. If I wanted to write really good music, then I would make instrumentals. Like e.g. Charlie Mingus, who can put anything he feels and wants to say in his music. I can't do that. One person writes poems, another paints, and I happen to be able to write lyrics." | ||
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{{Bibliography notes}} | {{Bibliography notes}} | ||
{{Bibliography next | {{Bibliography next | ||
|prev = Oor, | |prev = Oor, August 10, 1977 | ||
|next = Oor, | |next = Oor, October 19, 1977 | ||
}} | }} | ||
'''Oor, October 5, 1977 | '''Muziekkrant Oor, October 5, 1977 | ||
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[[Archie Barneveld]] and [[Martijn Stoffer]] interview Elvis Costello. <br> <span style="font-size:92%">(English translation thanks to Jessica De Visscher and Wouter Pronk.)</span> | [[Archie Barneveld]] and [[Martijn Stoffer]] interview Elvis Costello. <br> <span style="font-size:92%">(English translation thanks to Jessica De Visscher and Wouter Pronk.)</span> |
Revision as of 19:46, 27 February 2021
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