Record Collector, September 1995: Difference between revisions
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By the time I got to 22, I'd had several false starts at getting bands together, some of them documented, some of them so fleeting that no one knows about them. And I'd had several attempts at doing demos on my own, some of which later led to my getting signed — plus others which never surfaced, and remain a mystery to me. There were various people on the fringes of publishing and producing, but who weren't actually attached to labels, who obviously saw ''something'' in what I did, and they got me in to make a demo hoping that they could sell a piece of it. Fortunately, they didn't come to anything because there are a lot of artists who have these really half-assed tapes that surface later. | By the time I got to 22, I'd had several false starts at getting bands together, some of them documented, some of them so fleeting that no one knows about them. And I'd had several attempts at doing demos on my own, some of which later led to my getting signed — plus others which never surfaced, and remain a mystery to me. There were various people on the fringes of publishing and producing, but who weren't actually attached to labels, who obviously saw ''something'' in what I did, and they got me in to make a demo hoping that they could sell a piece of it. Fortunately, they didn't come to anything because there are a lot of artists who have these really half-assed tapes that surface later. | ||
''RC: One of which was the so called "Honky Tonk Demos" tape, which you used for the CD of '' | ''RC: One of which was the so called "Honky Tonk Demos" tape, which you used for the CD of ''My Aim Is True''... | ||
EC: Well, that was my official demo tape, the one that really got things started for me. It was made in my bedroom, on a friend's Revox. Before that, I'd sent out tapes I'd made on an old Grundig, which sounded pretty funky. I was sending out 20 songs at a time. I didn't know enough to realise that no publisher has the patience to listen to 20 songs, in the hope that the 18th one is the one that's good. They listen to the first song, and if it doesn't show great promise, they throw it away. | EC: Well, that was my official demo tape, the one that really got things started for me. It was made in my bedroom, on a friend's Revox. Before that, I'd sent out tapes I'd made on an old Grundig, which sounded pretty funky. I was sending out 20 songs at a time. I didn't know enough to realise that no publisher has the patience to listen to 20 songs, in the hope that the 18th one is the one that's good. They listen to the first song, and if it doesn't show great promise, they throw it away. | ||
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The truth is that most of the people writing about punk in London had come up from the suburbs, and they were very defensive and protective about the things that facilitated their escape from their horrible, empty lives. They took it out on the people who lived in the towns they came from. When you went down to Plymouth and there were just three kids with safety pins stuck in their lapels rather than wearing bin liners, they were having a hard job living up to what they had been taught to think was groovy. I hated that sort of tyranny. It's so insignificant — it goes by in the bat of an eyelid. | The truth is that most of the people writing about punk in London had come up from the suburbs, and they were very defensive and protective about the things that facilitated their escape from their horrible, empty lives. They took it out on the people who lived in the towns they came from. When you went down to Plymouth and there were just three kids with safety pins stuck in their lapels rather than wearing bin liners, they were having a hard job living up to what they had been taught to think was groovy. I hated that sort of tyranny. It's so insignificant — it goes by in the bat of an eyelid. | ||
Actually, I never saw any of the punk bands until later. I liked the | Actually, I never saw any of the punk bands until later. I liked the Clash's first record: it was quite influential in its spirit rather than its music, because I didn't think any of them could play to save their lives. Not that it mattered. But I wasn't at all interested in the Malcolm McLaren scene, I thought it was completely fake. I liked the Pistols' records, because I thought (producer) Chris Thomas made a tremendous sound, but I don't think they had a lot to do with it. The Pistols and Clash records stand up, and the Buzzcocks, who were a pop group who played fast, but a lot of the other groups were pretty awful. | ||
Clash's first record: it was quite influential in its spirit rather than | |||
its music, because I didn't think any of them could play to save their | |||
lives. Not that it mattered. But I wasn't at all interested in the Malcolm | |||
McLaren scene, I thought it was completely fake. I liked the Pistols' | |||
records, because I thought (producer) Chris Thomas made a tremendous sound, | |||
but I don't think they had a lot to do with it. The Pistols and Clash | |||
records stand up, and the Buzzcocks, who were a pop group who played fast, | |||
but a lot of the other groups were pretty awful. | |||
''RC: Did you feel any more at home with the great "new wave" explosion? | ''RC: Did you feel any more at home with the great "new wave" explosion? | ||
EC: I know nothing at all about new wave. As far as I remember, Polygram | EC: I know nothing at all about new wave. As far as I remember, Polygram Records invented new wave as a slogan to sell a bunch of crap American records like the Runaways, and stuck 'em all on a compilation with a Boomtown Rats track and something by the Dead Boys. They called it "New Wave" because it wasn't fast enough to sound like punk. And the name stuck. I just thought all slogans were stupid — except for the ones we made up to make fun of the music being pigeonholed. I was the one that coined the "surfing on the new wave" phrase, because it was asking to be said — like, there is a new wave, and I'm right on top of it. | ||
Records invented new wave as a slogan to sell a bunch of crap American | |||
records like the Runaways, and stuck 'em all on a compilation with a | |||
Boomtown Rats track and something by the Dead Boys. They called it "New | |||
Wave" because it wasn't fast enough to sound like punk. And the name stuck. | |||
I just thought all slogans were stupid — except for the ones we made up to | |||
make fun of the music being pigeonholed. I was the one that coined the | |||
"surfing on the new wave" phrase, because it was asking to be said — like, | |||
there is a new wave, and I'm right on top of it. | |||
''RC: On ''This Years Model'', you incorporated lots of influences from the British bands of the 60s. | ''RC: On ''This Years Model'', you incorporated lots of influences from the British bands of the 60s. | ||
EC: Yeah, we never made any bones about the fact that we ripped stuff off | EC: Yeah, we never made any bones about the fact that we ripped stuff off from other things. Sometimes it was done very consciously, and sometimes it was simply me thinking about it and not telling the rest of the band. | ||
from other things. Sometimes it was done very consciously, and sometimes it | |||
was simply me thinking about it and not telling the rest of the band. | |||
''RC: How easy is it to do that and still be original? | ''RC: How easy is it to do that and still be original? | ||
EC: I usually ripped off things I didn't like very much. I was quite a long | EC: I usually ripped off things I didn't like very much. I was quite a long way into my career before I did anything too overtly. They were usually quite subtle, like there's a 6th chord at the end of "[[Lip Service]]" like there is at the end of "She Loves You". That's a fairly off the wall one. There's maybe a suggestion of "I Want You (She's So Heavy)" at the end of "[[Party Girl]]". The Beatles were my main influence, but there weren't really Beatles references until we got to the stage where we were pretty confident that we could do it with wit. | ||
way into my career before I did anything too overtly. They were usually | |||
quite subtle, like there's a 6th chord at the end of "[[Lip Service]]" like | |||
there is at the end of "She Loves You". That's a fairly off the wall one. | |||
There's maybe a suggestion of "I Want You (She's So Heavy)" at the end of "[[Party Girl]]". The Beatles were my main influence, but there weren't really Beatles references until we got to the stage where we were pretty confident that we could do it with wit. | |||
Some of my singing early on sounded more like [[Van Morrison]], because he was | Some of my singing early on sounded more like [[Van Morrison]], because he was one of the people I listened to constantly — him and Rick Danko from the Band. And Georgie Fame, only I don't sound anything like him! The only time I maybe do is on "''Kojak Variety''", when I did a Mose Allison song, and it's hard to escape from Fame's kind of delivery with Allison's songs. | ||
one of the people I listened to constantly — him and Rick Danko from the | |||
Band. And Georgie Fame, only I don't sound anything like him! The only time | |||
I maybe do is on " | |||
hard to escape from Fame's kind of delivery with Allison's songs. | |||
It was never a problem, because a lot of the things we borrowed from were | It was never a problem, because a lot of the things we borrowed from were things I'd been passionate about some time earlier, so I was past the stage of being overwhelmed with them. I could look back at them affectionately. I knew all the Small Faces records backwards when I was 13, but I didn't have the ability or the platform to use what I'd learned from them until I was 23. So when we did "[[You Belong To Me]]", and it sounded like "Watcha Gonna Do About It" (Small Faces) crossed with "[[The Last Time]]" (Rolling Stones) I didn't really think about it, because the references were so fleeting. It was more that the whole spirit of "''This Year's Model''" was related to the Stones "Aftermath", because it was about the same kind of moment in somebody's life, updated for the late 70s. | ||
things I'd been passionate about some time earlier, so I was past the stage | |||
of being overwhelmed with them. I could look back at them affectionately. I knew all the Small Faces records backwards when I was 13, but I didn't have | |||
the ability or the platform to use what I'd learned from them until I was | |||
23. So when we did "[[You Belong To Me]]", and it sounded like "Watcha Gonna Do | |||
About It" (Small Faces) crossed with "[[The Last Time]]" (Rolling Stones) I | |||
didn't really think about it, because the references were so fleeting. It | |||
was more that the whole spirit of "This Year's Model" was related to the | |||
Stones "Aftermath", because it was about the same kind of moment in | |||
somebody's life, updated for the late 70s. | |||
''RC: ''This Year's Model'' has several songs that seem to be attacking the fashion industry in all its guises, but it's packaged in a very self consciously "modern" way — and ''Armed Forces'' even more so. | ''RC: ''This Year's Model'' has several songs that seem to be attacking the fashion industry in all its guises, but it's packaged in a very self consciously "modern" way — and ''Armed Forces'' even more so. | ||
EC: Barney Bubbles, who died a few years ago, did all our artwork until | EC: Barney Bubbles, who died a few years ago, did all our artwork until''Imperial Bedroom'', and he had a mind like an art encyclopaedia. He would borrow from different periods quite shamelessly, in a very witty way — he did a poster for "Watching The Detectives" that was a blatant take on Warhol, and there were the obvious Picasso references on the "''Imperial Bedroom''" painting. | ||
''Imperial Bedroom'', and he had a mind like an art encyclopaedia. He would | |||
borrow from different periods quite shamelessly, in a very witty way — he did | |||
a poster for "Watching The Detectives" that was a blatant take on Warhol, | |||
and there were the obvious Picasso references on the "Imperial Bedroom" | |||
painting. | |||
If a thing amused me when I saw it, I didn't ponder the significance of it. | If a thing amused me when I saw it, I didn't ponder the significance of it. When you buy a box of cornflakes, you eat the cornflakes, you don't eat the packet. You might look at the packet when you're eating the cornflakes — and it's the same thing as a record. We wanted to catch people's eyes. If they looked at "''This Year's Model''" and said, "Why is it printed off register as the initial pressing was, it was because we wanted people to ask exactly that. It meant they'd pause just that little bit longer in front of our sleeve. | ||
When you buy a box of cornflakes, you eat the cornflakes, you don't eat the | |||
packet. You might look at the packet when you're eating the cornflakes — and | |||
it's the same thing as a record. We wanted to catch people's eyes. If they | |||
looked at "This Year's Model" and said, "Why is it printed off register as | |||
the initial pressing was, it was because we wanted people to ask exactly | |||
that. It meant they'd pause just that little bit longer in front of our | |||
sleeve. | |||
Although it wasn't my idea, exactly the same thinking was behind me | Although it wasn't my idea, exactly the same thinking was behind me changing my name, because it stopped people dead in their tracks and made them say, He can't be called that! He is called that!" By that time, they'd noticed me more than the bloke called Joe Smith. | ||
changing my name, because it stopped people dead in their tracks and made | |||
them say, He can't be called that! He is called that!" By that time, they'd | |||
noticed me more than the bloke called Joe Smith. | |||
A lot of the things are simple like that, and it's a mistake to read more | A lot of the things are simple like that, and it's a mistake to read more into them. If you'd interviewed Barney, he might have had another agenda. Obviously, there is a certain irony to the fact that the record's called ''This Year's Model'' — and I'm behind the camera looking at her! And I've no idea what's happening on the back of the record, where I'm flying through the window, or what the washing machines and the dummies are about. Or the Sinclair TV, which didn't exist at the time. There weren't any colour TVs of that size. Even the things that appeared to be fashionable were actually fantasy. As to me having a fashionable image, well, my suit cost me two dollars from a thrift store. It was hardly the height of fashion. | ||
into them. If you'd interviewed Barney, he might have had another agenda. | |||
Obviously, there is a certain irony to the fact that the record's called | |||
''This Year's Model'' — and I'm behind the camera looking at her! And I've no | |||
idea what's happening on the back of the record, where I'm flying through | |||
the window, or what the washing machines and the dummies are about. Or the | |||
Sinclair TV, which didn't exist at the time. There weren't any colour TVs | |||
of that size. Even the things that appeared to be fashionable were actually | |||
fantasy. As to me having a fashionable image, well, my suit cost me two | |||
dollars from a thrift store. It was hardly the height of fashion. | |||
The Armed Forces" sleeve was very involved. I loved it, it was very funny. | The Armed Forces" sleeve was very involved. I loved it, it was very funny. We wanted to make it as impractical and ghastly as possible. There were kitsch elements of pop art in it, of trash art that you buy from Woolworth's, of postcards that are disposable and you lose them. It was never supposed to live forever, so it's ironic that we've ended up reissuing the thing. | ||
We wanted to make it as impractical and ghastly as possible. There were | |||
kitsch elements of pop art in it, of trash art that you buy from | |||
Woolworth's, of postcards that are disposable and you lose them. It was | |||
never supposed to live forever, so it's ironic that we've ended up | |||
reissuing the thing. | |||
That's why we put the first reissue package out in a cardboard box that | That's why we put the first reissue package out in a cardboard box that falls apart after six months, and it's in horrible colours. We weren't trying to make it leather bound and gold embossed just because we were reissuing it. We wanted to make it as cheap and horrible as it was when it was issued originally. | ||
falls apart after six months, and it's in horrible colours. We weren't | |||
trying to make it leather bound and gold embossed just because we were | |||
reissuing it. We wanted to make it as cheap and horrible as it was when it | |||
was issued originally. | |||
''RC: "Emotional Fascism" was your original title for ''Armed Forces'' and it could almost have been the subtitle for the whole of your early career. | ''RC: "Emotional Fascism" was your original title for ''Armed Forces'' and it could almost have been the subtitle for the whole of your early career. | ||
EC: Yeah, it could have been. Obviously, it would have frightened the hell | EC: Yeah, it could have been. Obviously, it would have frightened the hell out of American record companies if we'd used it. By that point, we were in a bubble, travelling very fast — we did three American tours in quick succession. The period of your life where you're going to work and writing the songs on the train goes away, and instead you're sitting on a bus, looking out the window at a country you've never been to but have only read about, listened to and absorbed through your imagination, and suddenly it's out there, and it's somewhat different to what you thought. You've got strange people offering you this, that and the other. It all gets mixed up. | ||
out of American record companies if we'd used it. By that point, we were in | |||
a bubble, travelling very fast — we did three American tours in quick | |||
succession. The period of your life where you're going to work and writing | |||
the songs on the train goes away, and instead you're sitting on a bus, | |||
looking out the window at a country you've never been to but have only read | |||
about, listened to and absorbed through your imagination, and suddenly it's | |||
out there, and it's somewhat different to what you thought. You've got | |||
strange people offering you this, that and the other. It all gets mixed up. | |||
Armed Forces is a very modern record of its time self consciously | Armed Forces is a very modern record of its time self consciously modernist, I should say. We borrowed sounds from some records that we listened to constantly, almost obsessively, at the time. We were into | ||
modernist, I should say. We borrowed sounds from some records that we | strange behaviour! If you're sitting in a station wagon driving from Atlanta to Madison, Wisconsin and listening to Bowie's "Low" and "Heroes", and Iggy Pop's "The Idiot" and "ABBA's Greatest Hits" over and over again, that's the kind of record you'll make! We'd be driving through the Appalachians and say, no, I can't stand to listen to Blue Bayou" for the fourteenth time today, or some song by Fleetwood Mac, lets go back to Berlin. So we'd stick on the tape and be driving through the mist in Appalachia listening to some ghastly synthesiser music made in Berlin. It was bound to make you messed up. The reference points were bound to get unglued. In the end, we got terribly arrogant and confident, and that's why the record sounds like that. | ||
listened to constantly, almost obsessively, at the time. We were into | |||
strange behaviour! If you're sitting in a station wagon driving from | |||
Atlanta to Madison, Wisconsin and listening to Bowie's "Low" and "Heroes", | |||
and Iggy Pop's "The Idiot" and "ABBA's Greatest Hits" over and over again, | |||
that's the kind of record you'll make! We'd be driving through the | |||
Appalachians and say, no, I can't stand to listen to Blue Bayou" for the | |||
fourteenth time today, or some song by Fleetwood Mac, lets go back to | |||
Berlin. So we'd stick on the tape and be driving through the mist in | |||
Appalachia listening to some ghastly synthesiser music made in Berlin. It | |||
was bound to make you messed up. The reference points were bound to get | |||
unglued. In the end, we got terribly arrogant and confident, and that's why the record sounds like that. | |||
''RC: Was there ever time to take stock of what you were doing in that period, or were you just reacting to events | ''RC: Was there ever time to take stock of what you were doing in that period, or were you just reacting to events | ||
EC: Everything was a complete reaction. Taking stock wasn't what it was | EC: Everything was a complete reaction. Taking stock wasn't what it was about, even if we had time.We made as good and as bad a job as anybody could have done, in terms of fucking it up. | ||
about, even if we had time.We made as good and as bad a job as anybody | |||
could have done, in terms of fucking it up. | |||
''RC: ''Get Happy'' seems to have come out of a period of emotional turmoil as well as musical indecision. You've written in the CD booklet that you started out making another record that would sound like ''Armed Forces'', and then scrapped it. | ''RC: ''Get Happy'' seems to have come out of a period of emotional turmoil as well as musical indecision. You've written in the CD booklet that you started out making another record that would sound like ''Armed Forces'', and then scrapped it. | ||
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EC: It wasn't really an angst ridden period actually. Musically, we were still quite smitten with Bowie's music. For instance, we tried to play "High Fidelity" like ''Station To Station'' throughout one U.S. [[:Category:Armed Funk Tour|tour]] — quite successfully, in fact — in this ponderous, heavy metal style. But we never had loud guitars at that point, so it was hard to deliver the clout that Bowie had, with all his multi-tracked guitars. It always sounded punier and more poppy when we did it. | EC: It wasn't really an angst ridden period actually. Musically, we were still quite smitten with Bowie's music. For instance, we tried to play "High Fidelity" like ''Station To Station'' throughout one U.S. [[:Category:Armed Funk Tour|tour]] — quite successfully, in fact — in this ponderous, heavy metal style. But we never had loud guitars at that point, so it was hard to deliver the clout that Bowie had, with all his multi-tracked guitars. It always sounded punier and more poppy when we did it. | ||
There were other songs written on the road, in edgy times, and the | There were other songs written on the road, in edgy times, and the arrangements weren't bedded down in any sort of rhythm. They sort of rattled away, and the words flew by, and you couldn't understand them. Some of the songs needed to be slowed down and got into a groove. It just happened that I was listening to a lot of the music I'd loved when I was 15 — a lot of Motown and Stax and Atlantic. I was digging out singles and trying to find odd tracks that had funny sounds on, for inspiration, really. We literally made the decision to start again over a couple of pints of beer. | ||
arrangements weren't bedded down in any sort of rhythm. They sort of | |||
rattled away, and the words flew by, and you couldn't understand them. Some | |||
of the songs needed to be slowed down and got into a groove. It just | |||
happened that I was listening to a lot of the music I'd loved when I was | |||
15 — a lot of Motown and Stax and Atlantic. I was digging out singles and | |||
trying to find odd tracks that had funny sounds on, for inspiration, | |||
really. We literally made the decision to start again over a couple of pints of beer. | |||
We'd had a couple of days in the studio where we tried to play those arrangements, but they'd sounded wretched, so | We'd had a couple of days in the studio where we tried to play those arrangements, but they'd sounded wretched, so we went to the pub and said, what are we gonna do? Why don't we ALL try playing some of these songs slower, and use more rhythmic accompaniment, rather than these tricky, nervy kind of backing that we'd been using? And it just fell into place. | ||
we went to the pub and said, what are we gonna do? Why don't we ALL try playing some of these songs slower, and use more rhythmic accompaniment, rather than these tricky, nervy kind of backing that we'd | |||
been using? And it just fell into place. | |||
One of the first ones we did was Temptation", and it was like sampling. We | One of the first ones we did was Temptation", and it was like sampling. We just took the riff from Booker T's Time Is Tight', and put the song over it stretched it over this frame, like making a boat or something. Quite a lot of the songs were like that. "Opportunity" was an Al Green song in our minds, though it doesn't sound anything like Al Green. "[[Clowntime Is Over]]" was Curtis Mayfield. They all had an association, but we didn't go out of our way to model them any more than that. "High Fidelity" has a quote from the Supremes, but that was there in the original song. The influence of the soul stuff had been lurking there all along. We always listened to a lot of different stuff, but from time to time we'd fix on a particular thing, which would become dominant on the in house sound system when we were travelling. | ||
just took the riff from Booker T's Time Is Tight', and put the song over it | |||
stretched it over this frame, like making a boat or something. Quite a lot of | |||
the songs were like that. "Opportunity" was an Al Green song in our minds, though it doesn't sound anything like Al Green. "[[Clowntime Is Over]]" was Curtis | |||
we didn't go out of our way to model them any more than that. "High | |||
Fidelity" has a quote from the Supremes, but that was there in the original | |||
song. The influence of the soul stuff had been lurking there all along. We | |||
always listened to a lot of different stuff, but from time to time we'd fix | |||
on a particular thing, which would become dominant on the in house sound system when we were travelling. | |||
''RC: Were "Temptation," "Opportunity" and "Possession" planned as a trilogy? | ''RC: Were "Temptation," "Opportunity" and "Possession" planned as a trilogy? | ||
EC: No. It would be great if I could say they were. But maybe once I'd | EC: No. It would be great if I could say they were. But maybe once I'd written the first two, it was inevitable I'd write "Possession". | ||
written the first two, it was inevitable I'd write "Possession". | |||
We were recording in Holland, and went for a cup of coffee in Hilversum, | We were recording in Holland, and went for a cup of coffee in Hilversum, because the hotel where we were staying was ghastly. We were very bored, and we went into a cafe there, and I fell in love with the waitress and wrote the song in 10 minutes. It was a total lust song, it had nothing to do with any art concept. I wrote it, then insisted on learning it on the way back to the studio. We were quite drunk, as it happens! It wasn't very serious. | ||
because the hotel where we were staying was ghastly. We were very bored, | |||
and we went into a cafe there, and I fell in love with the waitress and | |||
wrote the song in 10 minutes. It was a total lust song, it had nothing to do with any art concept. I wrote it, then insisted on learning it on the | |||
way back to the studio. We were quite drunk, as it happens! It wasn't very serious. | |||
''RC: The album ends with Riot Act", which is obviously a very personal song. Have you ever regretted revealing so much with those lyrics? | ''RC: The album ends with Riot Act", which is obviously a very personal song. Have you ever regretted revealing so much with those lyrics? | ||
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EC: No. It says exactly what I meant it to say It was very truthful. I had to write it. | EC: No. It says exactly what I meant it to say It was very truthful. I had to write it. | ||
It's the one song on the record, maybe along side "Man Called Uncle", which | It's the one song on the record, maybe along side "Man Called Uncle", which doesn't use any R&B disguise. Actually, I prefer the demo version which is on the CD, because by the time we came to record it, we were pretty wasted, we were all out. The vocal performance is much better on the demo, vocally, and the guitar sounds more evil. | ||
doesn't use any R&B disguise. Actually, I prefer the demo version which is | |||
on the CD, because by the time we came to record it, we were pretty wasted, | |||
we were all out. The vocal performance is much better on the demo, vocally, | |||
and the guitar sounds more evil. | |||
''RC: On your next album, ''Trust'', there were all these very complex | ''RC: On your next album, ''Trust'', there were all these very complex metaphorical songs — and then "[[Different Finger]]", which was written in a much simpler style. | ||
metaphorical songs — and then "[[Different Finger]]", which was written in a much | |||
simpler style. | |||
EC: I wrote that when I was 19, and trying to write a Tammy Wynette song. | EC: I wrote that when I was 19, and trying to write a Tammy Wynette song. Many of the lyrics for "Watch Your Step" and "New Lace Sleeves" are also from when I was 19. It wasn't that I was out of material: I had always hankered after using these verses. | ||
Many of the lyrics for "Watch Your Step" and "New Lace Sleeves" are also | |||
from when I was 19. It wasn't that I was out of material: I had always | |||
hankered after using these verses. | |||
Even the tune of "New Lace Sleeves" was old. I just hid it away for years. | Even the tune of "New Lace Sleeves" was old. I just hid it away for years. It was one of the flukey, more sophisticated songs I wrote, when I was messing around with trickier chord sequences than most of the early stuff. It's still one of my favourites of our tracks. | ||
It was one of the flukey, more sophisticated songs I wrote, when I was | |||
messing around with trickier chord sequences than most of the early stuff. | |||
It's still one of my favourites of our tracks. | |||
On ''Trust'', we were trying to capture the rhythmic aspect of ''Get Happy'' without referring so obviously to any outside influence. For instance, "Strict Time" is related to the Meters, but only by the most tenuous thing, like the scratchy guitar sound. The songs have tunes like those on ''Armed Forces'', but not what was seen at the time as the rather shiny production — though it's funny to think of that now, because they all sound as if they were recorded down a well compared to modern records. | On ''Trust'', we were trying to capture the rhythmic aspect of ''Get Happy'' without referring so obviously to any outside influence. For instance, "Strict Time" is related to the Meters, but only by the most tenuous thing, like the scratchy guitar sound. The songs have tunes like those on ''Armed Forces'', but not what was seen at the time as the rather shiny production — though it's funny to think of that now, because they all sound as if they were recorded down a well compared to modern records. | ||
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''RC: I've never quite managed to figure out what that song's about. | ''RC: I've never quite managed to figure out what that song's about. | ||
EC: Me too, it's an odd one. I've no idea. I was taking a lot of drugs when | EC: Me too, it's an odd one. I've no idea. I was taking a lot of drugs when I wrote some of those songs. Some of them are pretty affected by that. That's not to say that I don't remember what they're about, but the logic is quite deliberately fractured. It's like short bursts of attention span, gathered together into songs. | ||
I wrote some of those songs. Some of them are pretty affected by that. | |||
That's not to say that I don't remember what they're about, but the logic | |||
is quite deliberately fractured. It's like short bursts of attention span, gathered together into songs. | |||
"You'll Never Be A Man" is another lust song, but it's about a woman who wants to play the sexual power game the way that men usually do. It just doesn't all make sense logically like a Sunday school parable. | "You'll Never Be A Man" is another lust song, but it's about a woman who wants to play the sexual power game the way that men usually do. It just doesn't all make sense logically like a Sunday school parable. | ||
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''RC: Wordplay seems to be a really important element on Trust". Almost every song is a parade of puns and metaphors. | ''RC: Wordplay seems to be a really important element on Trust". Almost every song is a parade of puns and metaphors. | ||
EC: I don't even notice it. I got tired of reading about that in articles | EC: I don't even notice it. I got tired of reading about that in articles about what I do, because I don't see it as a dominant thing at all. Maybe it was more obvious on "''Armed Forces''", where there were some really terrible puns. But all good pop lyrics try to work on that basis, unless they're really trying to be Esperanto and not use any words they won't understand in Taiwan — like "I Will Always Love You," any idiot can understand that. You could play that to a Martian, if you pointed enough. I took my cue from [[Smokey Robinson]], and songs like "I Second That Emotion," which are based on wordplay. | ||
about what I do, because I don't see it as a dominant thing at all. Maybe | |||
it was more obvious on "Armed Forces", where there were some really | |||
terrible puns. But all good pop lyrics try to work on that basis, unless | |||
they're really trying to be Esperanto and not use any words they won't | |||
understand in Taiwan — like "I Will Always Love You," any idiot can | |||
understand that. You could play that to a Martian, if you pointed enough. I | |||
took my cue from [[Smokey Robinson]], and songs like "I Second That Emotion," | |||
which are based on wordplay. | |||
''RC: And Cole Porter? | ''RC: And Cole Porter? | ||
EC: Not until later, maybe, though that stuff was always in the back of my | EC: Not until later, maybe, though that stuff was always in the back of my mind, through my dad being a jazz musician and my mum selling records. I had very sophisticated taste in music until I was about 11, when I discovered the Beatles. They became everything to me, and beat music dominated my thinking until it was overtaken by Motown, soul and even reggae. | ||
mind, through my dad being a jazz musician and my mum selling records. I | |||
had very sophisticated taste in music until I was about 11, when I | |||
discovered the Beatles. They became everything to me, and beat music | |||
dominated my thinking until it was overtaken by Motown, soul and even | |||
reggae. | |||
I didn't get into psychedelic records until I went to live in Liverpool in | I didn't get into psychedelic records until I went to live in Liverpool in 1970, so I missed all of 1967. The only time I heard psychedelia was when my dad listened to it, when he became a sort of hippie. He was listening to the Incredible String Band, the Butterfield Blues Band, and the Grateful Dead and Jefferson Airplane. I played them, but didn't find a lot in them for me, because I was really into Marvin Gaye and those "Return Of Django" records — the stuff we danced to at teenage parties. From the time I was 11 to 16 — only five years, but five pretty important years in your life — I concentrated on pop music, and the changing trends. | ||
1970, so I missed all of 1967. The only time I heard psychedelia was when | |||
my dad listened to it, when he became a sort of hippie. He was listening to | |||
the Incredible String Band, the Butterfield Blues Band, and the Grateful | |||
Dead and Jefferson Airplane. I played them, but didn't find a lot in them | |||
for me, because I was really into Marvin Gaye and those "Return Of Django" records — the stuff we danced to at teenage parties. From the time I was 11 | |||
to 16 — only five years, but five pretty important years in your life — I | |||
concentrated on pop music, and the changing trends. | |||
But before then, I listened constantly to jazz and Ella and Sinatra and Mel | But before then, I listened constantly to jazz and Ella and Sinatra and Mel Torme and [[Tony Bennett]], so I knew all these songs. I mean, I can sing you hundreds of them. | ||
Torme and [[Tony Bennett]], so I knew all these songs. I mean, I can sing you hundreds of them. | |||
''RC: So it was quite natural for you to record "Love For Sale" or "[[My Funny Valentine]]" pretty early in your careers? | ''RC: So it was quite natural for you to record "Love For Sale" or "[[My Funny Valentine]]" pretty early in your careers? | ||
EC: Yeah, because they were all stuck in my head from when I was a kid. My | EC: Yeah, because they were all stuck in my head from when I was a kid. My mother says I could work the record player before I could walk properly. And before I could talk properly, I would request certain records. I've Got You Under My Skin" was one of them. So it was ingrained, almost brainwashed. | ||
mother says I could work the record player before I could walk properly. | |||
And before I could talk properly, I would request certain records. I've Got | |||
You Under My Skin" was one of them. So it was ingrained, almost brainwashed. | |||
''RC: One of the constant underlying themes of ''Trust'' seemed to be distaste for the press — not just in the song " | ''RC: One of the constant underlying themes of ''Trust'' seemed to be distaste for the press — not just in the song "Fish & Chip Papers," but also in the lyrical imagery of the whole record. | ||
EC: I don't think I was attacking the press in relation to my career, just | EC: I don't think I was attacking the press in relation to my career, just generally. It was starting to go bad even then. It's got much worse since. | ||
generally. It was starting to go bad even then. It's got much worse since. | |||
The whole album was about sour and rotten doings in different areas — like | The whole album was about sour and rotten doings in different areas — like in "Clubland", with all that stuff about corruption, which reappeared later in songs like "Man Out Of Time". We used to spend a lot of time in quite seedy hotels, so I got quite a good look at the bastards that were carving up England, with their guard down. We were trying to seduce their daughters while they were putting up the next multi-storey car park. There were always these bastards at these ghastly local functions. There would usually be some sort of altercation. | ||
in "Clubland", with all that stuff about corruption, which reappeared later | |||
in songs like "Man Out Of Time". We used to spend a lot of time in quite | |||
seedy hotels, so I got quite a good look at the bastards that were carving | |||
up England, with their guard down. We were trying to seduce their daughters | |||
while they were putting up the next multi-storey car park. There were | |||
always these bastards at these ghastly local functions. There would usually be some sort of altercation. | |||
''RC: Had you actually played in Nashville before you recorded your country album, ''[[Almost Blue]]''? | ''RC: Had you actually played in Nashville before you recorded your country album, ''[[Almost Blue]]''? | ||
EC: Yeah. It's quite funny, because we opened with three [[Hank Williams]] | EC: Yeah. It's quite funny, because we opened with three [[Hank Williams]] songs, and that didn't go down very well. The kids who came to see us in Nashville didn't want us to be country; they wanted us to be even more punk than we were perceived to be in the rest of America. We were accepted wholesale as the real thing in America — because the real thing didn't get to them. The Pistols did one short U.S. tour, the Damned did a tour before that and the Clash came afterwards, so we were the first group that many people in America saw that was anything like a punk band. | ||
songs, and that didn't go down very well. The kids who came to see us in | |||
Nashville didn't want us to be country; they wanted us to be even more punk | |||
than we were perceived to be in the rest of America. We were accepted | |||
wholesale as the real thing in America — because the real thing didn't get to | |||
them. The Pistols did one short U.S. tour, the Damned did a tour before | |||
that and the Clash came afterwards, so we were the first group that many | |||
people in America saw that was anything like a punk band. | |||
So there we were, walking round Nashville, and these kids started giving us | So there we were, walking round Nashville, and these kids started giving us a hard time because we had short hair — which was strange, because a few years earlier we'd have been beaten up for having long hair. But we did have to be a bit careful when we first went down South. Some towns were hipper than others. Dallas was more so than Houston, and Austin was hipper again. But we never went to Memphis early on for obvious reasons!. | ||
a hard time because we had short hair — which was strange, because a few | |||
years earlier we'd have been beaten up for having long hair. But we did | |||
have to be a bit careful when we first went down South. Some towns were | |||
hipper than others. Dallas was more so than Houston, and Austin was hipper | |||
again. But we never went to Memphis early on for obvious reasons!. | |||
The first time I set foot in Nashville, I went there specially to record | The first time I set foot in Nashville, I went there specially to record with George Jones, after "''This Year's Model''" came out. Somebody at the record company in New York had heard the out take version of "Stranger In The House", which came with the "''This Year's Model''" album, and they'd got the idea that I should record with George. He was doing this duets album and they figured they ought to cover all the markets. These days, they'd have got a consultant in to work out all the demographics — like the Sinatra albums, which felt as if they had been worked out in a laboratory. Truthfully, I'd rather hear George Jones sing the song all the way through than me singing on it, but it was still a thrill to go there. | ||
with George Jones, after "This Year's Model" came out. Somebody at the | |||
record company in New York had heard the out take version of "Stranger In | |||
The House", which came with the "This Year's Model" album, and they'd got | |||
the idea that I should record with George. He was doing this duets album | |||
and they figured they ought to cover all the markets. These days, they'd | |||
have got a consultant in to work out all the demographics — like the Sinatra | |||
albums, which felt as if they had been worked out in a laboratory. | |||
Truthfully, I'd rather hear George Jones sing the song all the way through | |||
than me singing on it, but it was still a thrill to go there. | |||
The record company paid for me to go down there, took me out to see [[Bruce | The record company paid for me to go down there, took me out to see [[Bruce Springsteen]], who happened to be in town, and then George Jones didn't show, which was a bit disappointing. So I had a look round, bought a stupid jacket and a couple of guitars, and got to play guitar on the track. The producer, Billy Sherrill, said I might as well play a solo on it. Well, I'd never played a guitar solo in my life, so the first one I put on record was this acoustic one. When we came back at the start of 1979, on the "''Armed Forces''" tour, we had a day off and I went and made that record with Jones. Lots of people thought we didn't record that together, but we did. | ||
Springsteen]], who happened to be in town, and then George Jones didn't show, | |||
which was a bit disappointing. So I had a look round, bought a stupid | |||
jacket and a couple of guitars, and got to play guitar on the track. The | |||
producer, Billy Sherrill, said I might as well play a solo on it. Well, I'd | |||
never played a guitar solo in my life, so the first one I put on record was | |||
this acoustic one. When we came back at the start of 1979, on the "Armed | |||
Forces" tour, we had a day off and I went and made that record with Jones. | |||
Lots of people thought we didn't record that together, but we did. | |||
Around that time, we recorded a couple of tracks, like "He's Got You", as a | Around that time, we recorded a couple of tracks, like "He's Got You", as a try out, with Pete Drake on steel-working in the old Columbia Studio B, which was where "Stand By Your Man" and "Blonde On Blonde" had been recorded. When we returned to make the album, we were somewhat dismayed to find they'd just started renovating it, so we ended up in Studio A, which could have been anywhere. But it wasn't so much what went on in the studio that coloured "''Almost Blue''", it was more what didn't go on in the studio. Or what I got up to the rest of the time. | ||
try out, with Pete Drake on steel-working in the old Columbia Studio B | |||
which was where "Stand By Your Man" and "Blonde On Blonde" had been | |||
recorded. When we returned to make the album, we were somewhat dismayed to | |||
find they'd just started renovating it, so we ended up in Studio A, which | |||
could have been anywhere. But it wasn't so much what went on in the studio | |||
that coloured "Almost Blue", it was more what didn't go on in the studio. Or | |||
what I got up to the rest of the time. | |||
''RC: The ''South Bank Show'' TV special about the sessions suggested that Billy Sherrill's contribution to that album was nothing more than sitting in the studio and looking sceptical. | ''RC: The ''South Bank Show'' TV special about the sessions suggested that Billy Sherrill's contribution to that album was nothing more than sitting in the studio and looking sceptical. | ||
EC: It was a very well constructed film, but it made Sherrill the villain, | EC: It was a very well constructed film, but it made Sherrill the villain, and it exaggerated it a little bit. He showed more interest some days. Overall, though, Sherrill was more bemused, than anything, about us wanting to cut these songs that to him seemed "wornout". But they weren't worn out to our audience, and those people that didn't freak out at the mere thought of us doing a country record bought it. It was a much bigger hit in England than "''Trust''". But it sold nothing in America because they didn't know how to market it. | ||
and it exaggerated it a little bit. He showed more interest some days. | |||
Overall, though, Sherrill was more bemused, than anything, about us wanting | |||
to cut these songs that to him seemed "wornout". But they weren't worn out | |||
to our audience, and those people that didn't freak out at the mere thought | |||
of us doing a country record bought it. It was a much bigger hit in England | |||
than "Trust". But it sold nothing in America because they didn't know how to market it. | |||
''RC: ''Imperial Bedroom'' was the first album where you printed the lyrics — and then you effectively buried them in this illegible mass of words. | ''RC: ''Imperial Bedroom'' was the first album where you printed the lyrics — and then you effectively buried them in this illegible mass of words. | ||
EC: I've never been terribly comfortable with the thing of having these | EC: I've never been terribly comfortable with the thing of having these little poems on the sleeve. I think it makes too great a claim for the words. Later on, I got less worried, but at one point I was very uneasy, and didn't think the words stood up to being read in that way. I intended them to be heard. So I thought I'd make them like a telegram where somebody forgot the punctuation. It makes for quite interesting reading. You can make up your own lines, starting in the middle of one song and into the next one. | ||
little poems on the sleeve. I think it makes too great a claim for the | |||
words. Later on, I got less worried, but at one point I was very uneasy, | |||
and didn't think the words stood up to being read in that way. I intended | |||
them to be heard. So I thought I'd make them like a telegram where somebody | |||
forgot the punctuation. It makes for quite interesting reading. You can | |||
make up your own lines, starting in the middle of one song and into the next one. | |||
''RC: You made a fascinating interview album for | ''RC: You made a fascinating interview album for ''Imperial Bedroom'', where you went into the story behind the recording of each song in enormous detail, explaining how you'd altered the arrangements during the process of making the record with Geoff Emerick. | ||
EC: Christ, I can't remember what I said. I remember I did one for "Almost Blue" where I tried to ask myself the questions, and I found it so embarrassing that I drank about three bottles of wine, and by the end of it I sounded like Dean Martin! | EC: Christ, I can't remember what I said. I remember I did one for "''Almost Blue''" where I tried to ask myself the questions, and I found it so embarrassing that I drank about three bottles of wine, and by the end of it I sounded like Dean Martin! | ||
I could give a detailed account of every track I remember about, but some | I could give a detailed account of every track I remember about, but some are obviously more interesting. The early songs were so simple that there's not much story. There wasn't a lot of exploration to get to them. We weren't on the road with other influences. We just came at it completely cold, compared with "''Imperial Bedroom''", where we already had five albums of history with our audience, and the ability to say, "we will take 12 weeks to make this record" — not because we didn't know what we were doing, but because we wanted to try a few different options in the studio. | ||
are obviously more interesting. The early songs were so simple that there's not much story. There wasn't a lot of exploration to get to them. We weren't on the road with | |||
other influences. We just came at it completely cold, compared with "Imperial Bedroom", where we already had five albums of history with our audience, and the ability to say, "we will take 12 weeks to make this | |||
record" — not because we didn't know what we were doing, but because we wanted to try a few different options in the studio. | |||
We started working on all the songs that we were planning to record, and | We started working on all the songs that we were planning to record, and the tape of the rehearsal sounds just like "''Trust''". But once we started to push them out a little bit, and I started to mess around with the arrangements, they started to change in character. Geoff Emerick obviously had a lot to do with that, because he could create a much bigger picture than anybody we'd ever worked with before. He was used to being thrown an incomprehensible garble of sounds and musical directions, and making some sense of it. After working with the Beatles at the height of their psychedelic era, he was used to innovation, and to the direction being a bit berserk. | ||
the tape of the rehearsal sounds just like "Trust". But once we started to | |||
push them out a little bit, and I started to mess around with the | |||
arrangements, they started to change in character. Geoff Emerick obviously | |||
had a lot to do with that, because he could create a much bigger picture | |||
than anybody we'd ever worked with before. He was used to being thrown an | |||
incomprehensible garble of sounds and musical directions, and making some | |||
sense of it. After working with the Beatles at the height of their | |||
psychedelic era, he was used to innovation, and to the direction being a bit berserk. | |||
"Imperial Bedroom" got some of the greatest reviews imaginable, which just goes to show how much they're worth, as it didn't sell more than any other | "''Imperial Bedroom''" got some of the greatest reviews imaginable, which just goes to show how much they're worth, as it didn't sell more than any other record. The record company couldn't find any obvious hit singles on it, though I think it had several — they just released the wrong tracks. | ||
record. The record company couldn't find any obvious hit singles on it, | |||
though I think it had several — they just released the wrong tracks. | |||
The trouble all along has been that we make records and they sell them. And | The trouble all along has been that we make records and they sell them. And if you're making them, you're always looking for something new that excites you. But when I did what I thought was a really original record in "''Imperial Bedroom''", the record company still thought of us in terms of "''Armed Forces''". They hankered after that. | ||
if you're making them, you're always looking for something new that excites | |||
you. But when I did what I thought was a really original record in "Imperial | |||
Bedroom", the record company still thought of us in terms of "Armed Forces". | |||
They hankered after that. | |||
So instead of releasing a bold piece of music like "Beyond Belief" as a | So instead of releasing a bold piece of music like "Beyond Belief" as a single, that would have marked this album out as a departure or maybe "''Almost Blue''", a ballad that was very heartfelt, they released "You Little Fool" — which is a good pop construction but was the track most reminiscent of what we'd done before. It was idiotic. It was so cowardly on their part. Then, when the excitement for the album had been defused by that mistake, they released "Man Out Of Time", which again could have been a bold first single. Then when it flopped they said, Well, we told you it wasn't a good record". | ||
single, that would have marked this album out as a departure or maybe | |||
"Almost Blue", a ballad that was very heartfelt, they released "You Little | |||
Fool" — which is a good pop construction but was the track most reminiscent | |||
of what we'd done before. It was idiotic. It was so cowardly on their part. | |||
Then, when the excitement for the album had been defused by that mistake, | |||
they released "Man Out Of Time", which again could have been a bold first | |||
single. Then when it flopped they said, Well, we told you it wasn't a good | |||
record". | |||
I'm talking mainly about America, but to some extent Europe as well. We had | I'm talking mainly about America, but to some extent Europe as well. We had more control here. In America, we were put under more pressure, particularly after we moved into the era when videos appeared. Back in the 70s, we'd made videos for about two bob and they look appealingly like Charlie Chaplin films. The later ones started to get quite sophisticated. | ||
more control here. In America, we were put under more pressure, | |||
particularly after we moved into the era when videos appeared. Back in the | |||
70s, we'd made videos for about two bob and they look appealingly like | |||
Charlie Chaplin films. The later ones started to get quite sophisticated. | |||
''RC: On that interview record, you said that one of the reasons you chose to work with Emerick was that he shared your cynicism about modern recording techniques. Then on the next album ''Punch The Clock'', you did precisely the opposite and went for all the techniques you'd been trying to get away from. | ''RC: On that interview record, you said that one of the reasons you chose to work with Emerick was that he shared your cynicism about modern recording techniques. Then on the next album ''Punch The Clock'', you did precisely the opposite and went for all the techniques you'd been trying to get away from. | ||
EC: Well, that's what life's like. I decided to ask Clive Langer to produce | EC: Well, that's what life's like. I decided to ask Clive Langer to produce me. I liked his records, and he was the hottest guy around on the English music scene. I realised that we had a floating audience in America that only bought our records occasionally. We'd made two albums in succession that to some degree had lost ground — "''Almost Blue''" was a hit in Britain but not anywhere else, and ''Imperial Bedroom'' was sneered at in England, quite well liked in Europe and well written up in America, but didn't sell very well. In fact, counting ''Trust'', we'd gone three records without any substantial hit apart from "Good Year For The Roses". You have to consider that if you allow that contact with the mainstream audience to be severed for too long, you may lose the freedom to do what you want. | ||
me. I liked his records, and he was the hottest guy around on the English | |||
music scene. I realised that we had a floating audience in America that | |||
only bought our records occasionally. We'd made two albums in succession | |||
that to some degree had lost ground — "Almost Blue" was a hit in Britain but | |||
not anywhere else, and ''Imperial Bedroom'' was sneered at in England, quite | |||
well liked in Europe and well written up in America, but didn't sell very | |||
well. In fact, counting ''Trust'', we'd gone three records without any | |||
substantial hit apart from "Good Year For The Roses". You have to consider | |||
that if you allow that contact with the mainstream audience to be severed | |||
for too long, you may lose the freedom to do what you want. | |||
So we decided to see what happened with Clive Langer. In the past, we'd | So we decided to see what happened with Clive Langer. In the past, we'd never conformed to any great production design — Nick Lowe's idea had always been to capture what we did, Billy Sherrill's was to put up with what we did, and Geoff Emerick's was to let us go along until we exhausted the possibilities and permutations, and then try and make sense of it. This was the first time we'd taken a formal approach, and to some extent it really worked. | ||
never conformed to any great production design — Nick Lowe's idea had always | |||
been to capture what we did, Billy Sherrill's was to put up with what we | |||
did, and Geoff Emerick's was to let us go along until we exhausted the | |||
possibilities and permutations, and then try and make sense of it. This was | |||
the first time we'd taken a formal approach, and to some extent it really worked. | |||
I don't like many of the tracks on those two albums we made with Clive and | I don't like many of the tracks on those two albums we made with Clive and Alan Winstanley ( "''Punch The Clock''" and "''Goodbye Cruel World''" ) certainly not the singles anyway, but there's some great pieces of music. "[[Shipbuilding]]" is a beautiful piece, and "[[King Of Thieves]]" was one of those long, unwieldy, allegorical songs which were made listenable by Clive's production style. | ||
Alan Winstanley ( "Punch The Clock" and "Goodbye Cruel World" ) certainly not | |||
the singles anyway, but there's some great pieces of music. "[[Shipbuilding]]" | |||
is a beautiful piece, and "[[King Of Thieves]]" was one of those long, unwieldy, | |||
allegorical songs which were made listenable by Clive's production style. | |||
To balance them, we had a thing like "Every Day I Write The Book", that | To balance them, we had a thing like "Every Day I Write The Book", that anybody could whistle, and that was written in 10 minutes, as a spoof. Originally I tried to do it as a lovers' rock song, and then we grafted on this kind of modern rhythmic treatment. It always begged to be done in some kind of pop style. | ||
anybody could whistle, and that was written in 10 minutes, as a spoof. | |||
Originally I tried to do it as a lovers' rock song, and then we grafted on | |||
this kind of modern rhythmic treatment. It always begged to be done in some | |||
kind of pop style. | |||
''RC: It's strange that as you were heading towards the musical mainstream you were writing political songs that couldn't have been further from the spirit of 1983, when Mrs Thatcher won the election. | ''RC: It's strange that as you were heading towards the musical mainstream you were writing political songs that couldn't have been further from the spirit of 1983, when Mrs Thatcher won the election. | ||
EC: I think I'm smart enough to know that if you're distancing yourself | EC: I think I'm smart enough to know that if you're distancing yourself from the mainstream, less and less people are hearing the things you're saying. The worst thing about being subversive is saying, Now I am being subversive", because people will run away. But there is something subversive about having "Every Day I Write The Book" on the same album as Shipbuilding" and Pills And Soap". | ||
from the mainstream, less and less people are hearing the things you're | |||
saying. The worst thing about being subversive is saying, Now I am being | |||
subversive", because people will run away. But there is something | |||
subversive about having "Every Day I Write The Book" on the same album as Shipbuilding" and Pills And Soap". | |||
Pills And Soap" had already been a hit, of course, albeit with a bit of a | Pills And Soap" had already been a hit, of course, albeit with a bit of a con trick on the retailers and the BBC, when we threatened to delete it in a week, which helped catapult it into the charts. But in effect it was a broadside, a protest song. | ||
con trick on the retailers and the BBC, when we threatened to delete it in | |||
a week, which helped catapult it into the charts. But in effect it was a | |||
broadside, a protest song. | |||
''RC: The follow up to that song was "Peace In Our Time" on ''Goodbye Cruel World''. Wasn't there supposed to have been enormous controversy when you performed it on ''The Johnny Carson Show'' in the States? What happened? | ''RC: The follow up to that song was "Peace In Our Time" on ''Goodbye Cruel World''. Wasn't there supposed to have been enormous controversy when you performed it on ''The Johnny Carson Show'' in the States? What happened? | ||
EC: Nothing. It's been written up by Greil Marcus as if it was a great | EC: Nothing. It's been written up by Greil Marcus as if it was a great collision between two cultures, which is very flattering, but I was there and he wasn't, and what actually happened is that they couldn't physically hear what I was singing. It just didn't go in. | ||
collision between two cultures, which is very flattering, but I was there | |||
and he wasn't, and what actually happened is that they couldn't physically | |||
hear what I was singing. It just didn't go in. | |||
It was an unsuccessful song in that sense, as it didn't have the musical | It was an unsuccessful song in that sense, as it didn't have the musical equipment to get the message over in the way that Shipbuilding" and Pills And Soap" had. It had a pretty melody — not mine, in fact, as I lifted it, but I'm not gonna tell you where from in case I get sued! | ||
equipment to get the message over in the way that Shipbuilding" and Pills | |||
And Soap" had. It had a pretty melody — not mine, in fact, as I lifted it, | |||
but I'm not gonna tell you where from in case I get sued! | |||
''RC: After ''Goodbye Cruel World'' came out you started playing shows as the Coward Brothers with T Bone Burnette. One minute you were Howard Coward, the next you were issuing albums like ''King Of America'' and ''Blood And Chocolate'', where you were masquerading under ridiculous names. Was it all an attempt to get away from people's preconceptions of what Elvis Costello was going to do? | ''RC: After ''Goodbye Cruel World'' came out you started playing shows as the Coward Brothers with T Bone Burnette. One minute you were Howard Coward, the next you were issuing albums like ''King Of America'' and ''Blood And Chocolate'', where you were masquerading under ridiculous names. Was it all an attempt to get away from people's preconceptions of what Elvis Costello was going to do? | ||
EC: I think my whole career had been that ever since Trust". The name | EC: I think my whole career had been that ever since ''Trust''". The name changing and all that stuff — such psychological meanings have been read into it. On the one hand, it's obviously a blessing to have such a powerful image from your first few records, but in the other way, it's limiting, as people only see you in those terms. And when your own record company defines you in those terms, then it becomes difficult, because they're not even helping to promote the new image. | ||
changing and all that stuff — such psychological meanings have been read into | |||
it. On the one hand, it's obviously a blessing to have such a powerful | |||
image from your first few records, but in the other way, it's limiting, as | |||
people only see you in those terms. And when your own record company | |||
defines you in those terms, then it becomes difficult, because they're not | |||
even helping to promote the new image. | |||
The country record was one attempt to escape, Imperial Bedroom" was | The country record was one attempt to escape, ''Imperial Bedroom''" was another — and not just attempts, either, I was actually doing it. It just goes to show you how powerful the original image was. Until you come up with a suitably contrasting one, you won't really get it over to people. It took until 1991 to really do it. But by then, I'd stopped worrying about it, because it wasn't holding me back any more. | ||
another — and not just attempts, either, I was actually doing it. It just | |||
goes to show you how powerful the original image was. Until you come up | |||
with a suitably contrasting one, you won't really get it over to people. It | |||
took until 1991 to really do it. But by then, I'd stopped worrying about | |||
it, because it wasn't holding me back any more. | |||
I made ''Goodbye Cruel World'', and I was having a miserable time — I was | I made ''Goodbye Cruel World'', and I was having a miserable time — I was getting divorced — and I basically ran away to sea and went off on a solo tour. I hated the record by the time I got back, I knew we'd got most of it wrong. But we were locked into releasing it or else I would have gone bankrupt, at the exact moment when I couldn't afford to go bankrupt, because I was getting divorced. I couldn't scrap the record, so I let it come out, warts and all. | ||
getting divorced — and I basically ran away to sea and went off on a solo | |||
tour. I hated the record by the time I got back, I knew we'd got most of it wrong. But we were locked into releasing it or else I would have gone bankrupt, at the exact moment when I couldn't afford to go bankrupt, because I was getting divorced. I couldn't scrap the record, so I let it come out, warts and all. | |||
Now when I hear it, there are some passionate performances in there, but | Now when I hear it, there are some passionate performances in there, but they're muted by the arrangements. But it was no fault of Clive and Alan. I feel apologetic to anyone whose favourite record it is, but I can't lie and say that I think it's a good record — particularly the pop songs, that were put on there with an even more calculating ear for the nuances of the charts. | ||
they're muted by the arrangements. But it was no fault of Clive and Alan. I | |||
feel apologetic to anyone whose favourite record it is, but I can't lie and | |||
say that I think it's a good record — particularly the pop songs, that were | |||
put on there with an even more calculating ear for the nuances of the charts. | |||
I had a ball on the solo tour. It was my first time as a professional, but | I had a ball on the solo tour. It was my first time as a professional, but I'd done it a lot in my apprenticeship, as it were. I always enjoyed it. I could pick any song any night. I did lots of covers I'd never done before, like "I Threw It All Away", that I didn't get to record until "''Kojak Variety''". I did songs one night and then never again. The American leg was particularly great, and I think I sang the best I've ever sung. | ||
I'd done it a lot in my apprenticeship, as it were. I always enjoyed it. I | |||
could pick any song any night. I did lots of covers I'd never done before, | |||
like "I Threw It All Away", that I didn't get to record until "Kojak | |||
Variety". I did songs one night and then never again. The American leg was | |||
particularly great, and I think I sang the best I've ever sung. | |||
I also met T Bone on that tour and we became great pals. We started having | I also met T Bone on that tour and we became great pals. We started having fun with the Coward Brothers thing, which became one of my devices to stop the tour being the sensitive singer songwriter thing, which I'd been dead against. I was a fan of all that. | ||
fun with the Coward Brothers thing, which became one of my devices to stop | |||
the tour being the sensitive singer songwriter thing, which I'd been dead | |||
against. I was a fan of all that. | |||
It was the first album I'd done without the Attractions. Originally it was | It was the first album I'd done without the Attractions. Originally it was supposed to be half with them and half without, but it just didn't work out. Every session before they came seemed to be more productive than I had anticipated, and the record was at least three quarters done by the time they arrived. | ||
supposed to be half with them and half without, but it just didn't work | |||
out. Every session before they came seemed to be more productive than I had | |||
anticipated, and the record was at least three quarters done by the time they arrived. | |||
Because of the tension of suddenly shifting from working with them to | Because of the tension of suddenly shifting from working with them to working with other people, I think it put them on edge and made them defensive and hostile, which made me hostile, and the sessions were a | ||
working with other people, I think it put them on edge and made them | disaster. We just managed one good track, and then they left, and I finished the record with various combinations of people. | ||
defensive and hostile, which made me hostile, and the sessions were a | |||
disaster. We just managed one good track, and then they left, and I | |||
finished the record with various combinations of people. | |||
''RC: A lot of that tension and angst seems to have gone into ''Blood And Chocolate'', which reunited you with the Attractions. | ''RC: A lot of that tension and angst seems to have gone into ''Blood And Chocolate'', which reunited you with the Attractions. | ||
EC: I suppose it might have done, though I tried to push it out of my mind | EC: I suppose it might have done, though I tried to push it out of my mind when I got back. I'd agreed to do another record, but it was like, "Let's do this one and see how far we can go on". We're pretty much the same now, we haven't really made any great plans to go on forever and ever. | ||
when I got back. I'd agreed to do another record, but it was like, "Let's do | |||
this one and see how far we can go on". We're pretty much the same now, we | |||
haven't really made any great plans to go on forever and ever. | |||
The experience of doing King Of America" without the Attractions showed me | The experience of doing ''King Of America''" without the Attractions showed me one of the problems on the records we'd done with Clive and Alan — the band was simply falling apart. We'd seen too much of one another — familiarity breeding contempt and all those cliches. Time had gone by so quickly, I hadn't realised we'd been working together for eight or nine years. But once we. were in the studio for "''Blood And Chocolate''", it all worked very well. | ||
one of the problems on the records we'd done with Clive and Alan — the band | |||
was simply falling apart. We'd seen too much of one another — familiarity | |||
breeding contempt and all those cliches. Time had gone by so quickly, I | |||
hadn't realised we'd been working together for eight or nine years. But | |||
once we. were in the studio for "Blood And Chocolate", it all worked very | |||
well. | |||
On King Of America", I managed to get much more directness than on the | On "''King Of America''", I managed to get much more directness than on the previous records, and I thought that if I could do it in Hollywood with these guys I'd never met before, surely I could do it with these people I've worked with for all this time. So we set up and played as loud as we did on stage. It didn't really sound like ''This Year's Model''", but the component parts were just the four of us, and we did very few overdubs. We played as much a combo sound as possible — which is the sound we used on ''Brutal Youth''. | ||
previous records, and I thought that if I could do it in Hollywood with | |||
these guys I'd never met before, surely I could do it with these people | |||
I've worked with for all this time. So we set up and played as loud as we | |||
did on stage. It didn't really sound like This Year's Model", but the | |||
component parts were just the four of us, and we did very few overdubs. We | |||
played as much a combo sound as possible — which is the sound we used on | |||
''Brutal Youth''. | |||
''RC: Who were you thinking about when you wrote those lines about "You think it's over now" on "[[Uncomplicated]]"? | ''RC: Who were you thinking about when you wrote those lines about "You think it's over now" on "[[Uncomplicated]]"? | ||
EC: I don't know, it just popped into my head. I wrote it in the kitchen. I | EC: I don't know, it just popped into my head. I wrote it in the kitchen. I don't know whether to some extent I was writing the band's own story. I think there's a little bit of that, but I've never been one for writing self consciously about "Here's me in my hotel room with my guitar feeling sad about being on the road". I've tried to avoid those. But there were quite a few accounts — not scores — being settled on that record. Then there were some quite personal things on some songs — "Battered Old Bird" is like a little bit of my childhood. | ||
don't know whether to some extent I was writing the band's own story. I | |||
think there's a little bit of that, but I've never been one for writing | |||
self consciously about "Here's me in my hotel room with my guitar feeling | |||
sad about being on the road". I've tried to avoid those. But there were | |||
quite a few accounts — not scores — being settled on that record. Then there | |||
were some quite personal things on some songs — "Battered Old Bird" is like a | |||
little bit of my childhood. | |||
Some tracks used the studio in a more sophisticated way, but we were still | Some tracks used the studio in a more sophisticated way, but we were still using raw material. On "I Want You", for instance, everything you hear on the last minute of that record is all from my vocal mike. That's the only thing in the mix. You can hear the band, but only when they're bleeding through onto my voice. So it was a really primitive recording — just one mike in the middle of the studio. That's the only way we could achieve that low dynamic. | ||
using raw material. On "I Want You", for instance, everything you hear on | |||
the last minute of that record is all from my vocal mike. That's the only | |||
thing in the mix. You can hear the band, but only when they're bleeding | |||
through onto my voice. So it was a really primitive recording — just one mike | |||
in the middle of the studio. That's the only way we could achieve that low dynamic. | |||
''RC: What was going on on "[[Tokyo Storm Warning]]," besides the end of the world? | ''RC: What was going on on "[[Tokyo Storm Warning]]," besides the end of the world? | ||
EC: It was little snapshots put together. It's a protest song too. I love that, it's one of my favourite tracks. It started in Tokyo one time I went there and it was like a sci fi nightmare, which it is sometimes. You can feel as if you've been taken to another planet. Then I just added in these other things, some of which are real — like the Heysel Stadium, "the dead Italian tourists", and continuations of the theme of "Pills And Soap." It's mixed up, like a camera swirling round. I was always surprised it wasn't a hit. But maybe releasing that and "I Want You" — six minute singles, back to back — wasn't the way to do it! | EC: It was little snapshots put together. It's a protest song too. I love that, it's one of my favourite tracks. It started in Tokyo one time I went there and it was like a sci fi nightmare, which it is sometimes. You can feel as if you've been taken to another planet. Then I just added in these other things, some of which are real — like the Heysel Stadium, "the dead Italian tourists", and continuations of the theme of "Pills And Soap." It's mixed up, like a camera swirling round. I was always surprised it wasn't a hit. But maybe releasing that and "I Want You" — six minute singles, back to back — wasn't the way to do it! | ||
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{{Bibliography text}} | {{Bibliography text}} | ||
Ignore the implications of the title — '''Going Through The Motions''' isn't an assault on Costello, and this doesn't restrict itself to four years in the early 80s. | |||
Instead, this is the second of two tomes issued by the Elvis Costello Information Service, publishers of of a regular EC fanzine, which set out to document their man's recording and concert career in astounding detail. The original 'Elvis Costello: So Far' apparently tracked him from Flip City to "''Almost Blue''"; the chronological/biographical section of this book moves from the 'I'm Your Toy' single at the start of 1982 through to the threatened non-release of what became "''King Of America''" early in 1986. | |||
Added to those 80 pages of career summary are another 270 which detail all known live performances from the dawn of the Stiff era through to December 1985. Song listings are given where they're known and there are appendices detailing songs recorded but not performed in concert, songs sung by Elvis but not written by him, and much more of the same. | |||
An unusual bonus for U.S. tours are maps which chart the course of Costello's travels across the Continent and show how he slowly insinuated his way into the heart of the country after his initial blitz on the East and West Coasts. | |||
Terrifyingly detailed, but undoubtedly invaluable to the diehard collector. '''Going Through The Motions''' is recommended to anyone who is intrigued by the knowledge that Costello regularly began one 1981 tour with James Brown's "I Got you (I Feel Good)", or that he worked a few lines from "See Me, Feel Me". into a performance of "Worthless Thing". | |||
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[[Category:Interviews]] | [[Category:Interviews]] | ||
[[Category:1995 interviews]] | [[Category:1995 interviews]] | ||
Revision as of 11:32, 10 February 2017
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